39 comments so far on high-speed rail/Megalev discussion

Plans for high-speed Vegas to Victorville train line unveiled - Las Vegas Sun

 

Discussion: 39 comments so far on high-speed rail/Megalev discussion

1.

By Russell Morgan
4/28/09 at 2:27 p.m.
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Am I the only one that thinks that no one from Las Vegas will ride this to Victorville? For a family of 4 you are talking a $400 round trip (based on their $50 one way price point) and you still would have to rent a car in Victorville and still have to drive through LA traffic or down to San Diego to get to your final destination.

At least if you could take a Maglev to Anaheim you could do a Disneyland weekend without having to rent a car.
2.

By Brian_Eckhouse (Staff)
4/28/09 at 2:32 p.m.
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Couple clarifications on Mr. Morgan's comment: 1) The maglev group pitched the $50 price point. (We could know more tonight about how much DesertXpress will charge). 2) Maglev's route would terminate about two miles from Disneyland, not at the theme park as some critics have said.
3.

By Mandy
4/28/09 at 2:46 p.m.
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Does money really have to be spent on something like this? It's not as if the ride between the CA cities and Las Vegas is so horrendous that you couldn't enjoy the 3-4 hr ride. And driving it would cost much less than $50 per person. Even if the final fare would be less than $50, ie $30-35, it still would be cheaper. Waste of money to build this thing.
4.

By revtomperl
4/28/09 at 2:50 p.m.
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I would think that there are interesting alternatives such as restoring AMTRAK service to Las Vegas and / or creating a north south route which would connect from Salt Lake City and Las Vegas and Kingman and maybe someplace in Arizona on the Sunset Limited. That would give access to a variety of transcontinental routes. It would work for those who do not choose to drive gas guzzlers or those who do not have transportation alternatives and for some of us who hate airplanes. Ok, have a GREAT day! ALL ABOARD!
5.

By poker_ray
4/28/09 at 3:10 p.m.
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Maybe it can make a stop at the new City Hall. They can call it the "ScamTrak".
6.

By in_sider
4/28/09 at 3:19 p.m.
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Russell: You're thinking of it incorrectly, this isn't a way to transport Las Vegans to SoCal it is a way to get SoCals to LV. That's the traffic/transportation problem we have.

Mandy: In not the so distant future driving a car any distance or flying in a jet will be so unbearably expensive that rail service will be one of the only long distance mass transit alternatives available to the middle-class. Oil is finite, that means we need alternative transportation services to places like Las Vegas in which their entire economy is based on getting people there cheaply.

RevTomPerl: You make a lot of sense, but we need to think beyond the old model of AmTrak. A wide spread high-speed rail system is one of the few answers to
7.

By Russell Morgan
4/28/09 at 3:52 p.m.
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In_sider: It seems shortsighted to me to spend billions of dollars on a train line that only serves people on one side of it. Yes, the main issue at hand is getting people from CA to LV, but not every user of I-15 hails from California. That seems about as wise to me as building a monorail that basically only serves tourists, and then wondering why the locals don't ride it. I guarantee they would still try to market it to Las Vegans to get to SoCal, and we'd be seeing countless news items on "why won't Las Vegans take the Desert Xpress?"

Brian: Thank you for the clarification. I was not aware of where the Maglev terminus would be located. I might add though, even if the Maglev terminated 2 miles away from Disneyland (or Angels Stadium, or the Honda Center) and I had to take a $10 cab ride (or possible a free hotel shuttle), that would still be preferable than trying to rent a car in Victorville.
8.

By Nick
4/28/09 at 3:52 p.m.
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Great. I would love to use the train. Also expect buses and other transport to pick up at Victorville. It's a step in the right direction.

If gas goes back to $4.50 a gallon, Las Vegas will be cooked.
9.

By JayeTT
4/28/09 at 4:07 p.m.
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A high speed ride to Victorville? What's next? High speed rail to Ely?

I'm with Russell--I'd rather terminate anywhere in Anaheim over Victorville any day.

This project is so dead.
10.

By nednougat
4/28/09 at 4:08 p.m.
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Something nutty here. You've got Amtrak-yes, it's a piece of crap, but take a piece of all the billions, and simply reroute Amtrak through Vegas like it was in the mid-90's. Upgrade the rails and such with all that money. Right now, Amtrak has been starved to death-have you ever been to Kingman? A waiting room the size of your kitchen, and the train pulls in at 4:00 AM! But guess what? Its final stop is Union Station-like in downtown LA. Not that Barstow clone idea-hey, let's spend a weekend in Victorville, and visit the Roy Rogers Museum. What, it's long gone? This is easily the nuttiest idea since Oscar's Town Hall.
11.

By payrolldept
4/28/09 at 4:11 p.m.
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I'm not so sure I'm buying in to the passenger use numbers the website is quoting.
I'm in San Diego twice a month. I want to say this is a great idea; but I wouldn't use this train...
Who wants to be in LA with no wheels? And a rental car isn't cost effective.
12.

By Nick
4/28/09 at 4:18 p.m.
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Once the train is in LA area it will get expanded. Progress has been wonderful in L.A.

This could be huge for Las Vegas.

and I agree getting people TO LV is the goal.
13.

By Lenny_V
4/28/09 at 4:46 p.m.
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If the plan was to have another station in OC, and one in the northern SF valley or Santa Clarita, then I say yes, good idea. But if the final destination/starting point is Victorville, forget it. No one is driving 90 mins to Victorville then getting out of their cars to hop on a train.
14.

By jaesun
4/28/09 at 4:54 p.m.
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what a waste of money. thank you obama for pushing this? extend it to LA for goodness sake!
15.

By Our_Linn
4/28/09 at 5:13 p.m.
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Victorville?!?!?!?!?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
16.

By Dave V
4/28/09 at 5:57 p.m.
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This isn't the only non mag-lev train plan in the works. It's just the first to get publicity. There is another one planned that will go all the way into L.A. and will probably be in operation sooner than this one.
17.

By LemonSky
4/28/09 at 6:01 p.m.
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I'm just throwing ideas or thoughts out there, but nevertheless...

We're about to have thousands of construction workers as well as those involved in the supply chain out of work once Fontainebleu and City Center are complete. This will further devastate the already abysmal LV economy, leading to a strain on public resources and further deflating the demand for private enterprise goods and services. This can have a domino effect that can lead to population exodus and erosion of property values, for example. Having something like this rail fast-tracked could soften the blow.

But OMG, it reeks of social welfare!

Actually, hundreds of private businesses will benefit from a project of this magnitude. I'm sure the proposal can effectively calculate a generous multiplier effect for the High Desert through to Las Vegas.

There is a risk to this becoming a colossal boondoggle, but what's the old saying? Nothing ventured, nothing gained?

Unfortunately, the debate surrounding funding will inevitably be fueled with vitriol. A desperate Republican Party would use this as an example of government spending run amok. Never mind the fact the Southern states which are overwhelmingly rep'ed by Republicans suckle at the public teat more than any other region in the US. In fact, California and Nevada pay more in taxes than they receive from DC, so really, funding is just a means of getting to what these states are justifiably entitled.
18.

By 2zero
4/28/09 at 6:52 p.m.
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We can not even get the monorail to the airport! Fly to Vegas, rent a car...or pay a taxi!

Fly to Portland or San Fran, soon SLC, and there is mass transit to the business areas. Then there are good alternatives to getting around town.

Lost on most, is the notion this and all the train/maglev projects are to enable the proposed Ivanpah (sp?) airport to serve Southern California. And make Nevada's power brokers and politicians richer.
19.

By captainamerica
4/28/09 at 8:07 p.m.
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Victorville! More fun than Yermo
20.

By neiman1
4/28/09 at 8:53 p.m.
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Did you notice this could be build by PRIVATE FUNDS. Get the government out. Let private operators take the risk and operate it without government employees. This is the only one that makes sense.
21.

By LasVegas2009
4/28/09 at 10:05 p.m.
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Lots of merchandise could be imported in on that train. Fresh seafood and other supply that now get flown in. This could be good for business and a big plus for all of us in Vegas. This country would be served well with a reliable train service. With the cost of fuel ever increasing I could see a day when we train rather than fly.
22.

By OldSailor
4/28/09 at 11:14 p.m.
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Building a pipe dream (rails in this case) makes for a lot of fun. The crowd of 100 people attending the presentation should show that this is not a viable project. I would wager that no amount of market research has been done to see if the target ridership of Southern Californians would consider this transportation option.

OK, you live in Burbank or Pomona and you want to visit LV for a long weekend. You drive to Victorville and park your car in the hot sun for 3 or 4 days Of course, the train will only run a few times a day so you wait for the next run. You now have only to pay $100 round trip per person to arrive in LV where you need a cab to get to your hotel. On the eventual return to Victorville and your filthy car (hopefully it's still there) you are wondering why you didn't just drive the rest of the way to LV and avoid the hassle.

If the goal is to get train passenger service to LV, then perhaps DesertXpress Enterprises would be open to spending money to enhance the current rail system from LA to LV, lease some passenger cars from AMTRAK, and convince the casinos to subsidize the price of the tickets. Atlantic City casino operators have a similar plan in place since February 2009.

Of course if DesertXpress Enterprises goes belly-up there is always a government bailout. Right?
23.

By Sunlizard
4/29/09 at 8:48 a.m.
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So this is what our beloved jacka$, Senator Reid wants to spend our money on...a train from Victorville to Vegas? I guess he wants it to go to Anahiem. What a fool. We can stop this BS with enough comments. Don't let Reid use the nation's economy for his retarded pet projects and be sure to vote his sorry a$ out in 2010..
24.

By nednougat
4/29/09 at 9:22 a.m.
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There's a great video post on Mish's Global Analysis about how well Victorville is doing. They're tearing down nearly completed houses rather than maintain them.

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c...

It's called "Extreme home makeover depression edition."

So you really want to park your car in a desert hell, and wait for a train? And hope your car is still there when you return? Really people, how did this article become the headliner? Slow news day, I guess....
25.

By rumrunner
4/29/09 at 10:26 a.m.
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We have the monorail that go s no where,why not a train that does the same? Whats next? flight service to NLV AIRPORT FROM MACARRON? SEN REID,YOUR ARE NOTHING SHORT OF A CLOWN!!!
26.

By dart330
4/29/09 at 11:43 a.m.
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This train will not be built with public funds. It is a traditional steel wheel on steel rail, not a maglev or an Amtrak train. None of the stimulus money goes to building this, it is all being done by a private company.

When it fails because Victorville is the terminus, hopefully Amtrak will be able to take it over and continue the service on to Los Angeles Union Station. This would probably require the states to buy the rails from the bankrupt company, essentially a government bailout for a bad business plan.

They are looking at restoring traditional Amtrak service as well using government funds, to read more about that check out:
http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/mpo/pla...
27.

By maxine
4/29/09 at 11:45 a.m.
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I for one would really like to see hi-speed rail between LV and LA. Get me to Victorville in an hour and I'm a happy camper. Hope they put in some connecting transportation to L.A. though. The other plans to go to Anaheim are just stupid. Since when did Orange County become the center of business for the LA region.

Having ridden the Maglev in Shanghai, I can only say it's fantastic. Fast and efficient. Takes 10 minutes to get into town vs 45 minutes by cab.

Another great alternative would be if we could have rail transport that would carry autos - like the ferry's do. It would save fuel big time.
28.

By jaesun
4/29/09 at 12:33 p.m.
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Anaheim vs Victorville....

ill take anaheim anyday

that's like telling cali people they building a rail to LV, but stopping at Baker or Stateline, just foot the rest of the way.
29.

By LemonSky
4/29/09 at 1:13 p.m.
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It's a bit disingenuous to think this can be constructed without one dollar of public money.

Ultimately, who is the Daddy Warbucks for this venture? They talk about long-term debt and equity financing, but from where? Phil Ruffin, with his impeccable business credentials and assets couldn't even procure a $100 million plus loan to finance a part of his purchase of Treasure Island. I'd like to see who'll be willing to invest in a highly risky enterprise that'll cost billions and inevitably go over budget and wait eons to recoup his investment based on $55 tickets x 10 million passengers per year less costs.

If they get any money, I'd guess it'll mostly come in the form of a public loan which may end up metamorphosing into a public grant. Or the budget may split into a public part which will go towards infrastructure upgrades and one for the actual rail construction which may come from that long-term debt and equity financing.

In all, there are all sorts of risks, but it has to be undertaken in one way or another.
30.

By STV
4/29/09 at 1:45 p.m.
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This looks like a GREAT deal, for California.

Follow the link to the desertexpress website. Most all of the jobs (and the only one maintenance facility) are located in California. the entire site is touting the great enhancement for Californians. The site evens talks about expanding to service other Californian areas for Californians. Are you getting the jist of this plan yet?

No mention of encreasing the amount of visitors to Las Vegas, only an option for those Californians who usually travel here by car.

So, we don't get many jobs, we lose tax revenues from less gas purchased by Californians.

Why is this such a great deal for Nevadans?
31.

By muddapucker
4/29/09 at 3:39 p.m.
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Put a tax on prostitution and pay for the damn thing.

Its about the only renewable resource that we'll have left.
32.

By hooloogoo
4/29/09 at 4:21 p.m.
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.
..
...A recent article in the New York Times sounded similar to the bloggers here. Spain built a train service to a distant bullfight region (Cordoba.???) and many Spaniards were pessimistic as they are homebodys in many regions over there.

...It turned out with successful results and many connecting branches now link up to the Madrid main lines connecting varied regions of that desert country.

...Bagging the expensive Mag-Lev trains is wise as it would be less expensive to upgrade existing rails and purchasing already proven bullet locomotives and cars. Make sure there is a robust club car for food and beverage as this was a hallmark for train travel in ye olde days.

...If train service proves successful in the trial period . New lines to San Diego, Apple Valley and the City of Angels (tee hee) could be added later. What to do when one reaches Victorville is beyond me but we are decades behind the European and Asian countries when it comes to serving their citizens in short term travel under five hundred miles.

...Finally Mayor Goodman could give free tickets to the homeless one way to sunny California....All Aboard.... Victorville....
33.

By davidwayneosedach
4/29/09 at 6:18 p.m.
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This is the future. China is already laying down tracks for these trains. We should be too. I agree the ultimate destination should be Anaheim, or even LA.
34.

By muddapucker
4/29/09 at 7:24 p.m.
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You need to spend the 3-4 billion dollars trying to find enough water to serve the area.

Is there a planning and zoning dept in LV or do you just build and build until you exhaust all your resources and reach total gridlock.

Its a concrete and glass canyon on Las Vegas Blvd. You can't even see the mountains anymore from the road. I guess you would have to be up 10-12 floors.

Heck, you can't even travel on the 215 and parts of the 15 during rush hour. Think maybe we ought to relieve the congestion within LV before we start piping people in here?
35.

By emperorjoe
4/29/09 at 11:41 p.m.
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Anyone remomber the claims of how successful the monorail would be? Don't believe the traveling carnies. This a a very bad idea.
36.

By SlumpDog
4/30/09 at 3:37 a.m.
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Monorail was poorly planned, nobody can find it.

Put the hub where UNLV is. Relocate UNLV to the mountains in a study friendly environment.

Developers will go hog wild developing land in between UNLV and the strip. Let California worry about where it branches from Victorville, we've got tunnels and redevelopment to worry about.

But a train on ground level doing 150 mph? What if a wild horse jumps in front of it?

I'm all for it, though. Solar powered... jets spew too much carbon, pain in the butt to get on the jet, no leg room, no social area. The train needs to offer more than just 'not an airplane'.

Get Coor's to sponsor it, done deal...
"People all over the world now, join hands...
Phhhwweewwwww, there goes the train....

I'd take the train if there were jobs in Victorville.
37.

By SlumpDog
4/30/09 at 3:49 a.m.
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Forget about the water. Clint Eastwood didn't need a pipeline of water. Just bathe a little less. Drink bottled water. WTF??? I don't know what it is with these people that want a grass lawn here.

That's right I stink and have sweat patches under my armpits... get used to it or leave!
38.

By henderson
4/30/09 at 12:23 p.m.
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This might make some sense if it at least went San Bernardino. This is extremely wasteful spending. By the time someone in Anaheim or LA drives to Victorville, parks their car, meets the stupid train, buys their ticket, this turns out to be a waste of both time and money. It's the reason why I drive instead of fly to Los Angeles. By the time I park at the airport, enter inside, check bags, go through security, fly for 55 minutes, land, find my luggage and a ride to hotel, I can drive my own car, spare myself the airport hassle, save money on plane ticket and rental car or shuttle service, and spend less time in the process. This is ridiculous!
39.

By rafael
5/3/09 at 9:22 a.m.
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DesertXPress ought to forget about Victorville and instead build a 215 mile spur off phase I of the California HSR system. It would run from a wye at Mojave to Vegas via Barstow, designed for a top speed of 220mph with a 25kV AC overhead catenary. Their illustrations should also be honest: overhead catenary systems require poles to hold up the wire. Note that if DesertXPress sticks with crossing the two mountains on the spur at grade, the alignment will include sections with 4.5% gradients. CHSRA is planning to build tunnels so it can buy and operate cheaper trains that are limited to gradients of 3.5%.

There would be no station at Mojave, instead DesertXPress would acquire trackage rights on the CA network to run *direct* trains between Anaheim-LA and Vegas via Palmdale airport. In addition, they could run direct trains between SF-San Jose and Vegas via Fresno.

Barstow-Mojave is a little longer than Barstow-Victorville but on the other hand, there would be no need to construct a huge parking lot. DesertXPress could leverage the California maintenance facility that will be built anyhow. Currently, there is talk of one at Castle Airport in Merced county, but there will also need to be one in Anaheim.